CHICAGO — Nobody asks “who sent ya?” when you walk into Manny’s Deli, pick up a tray and deliberate over pastrami or corned beef to go with your latke.
This South Loop institution welcomes every element of Chicago. That was evident last week when we took “On The Road” to the American city that’s perhaps most consumed by its own politics.
Manny’s crowd spanned class and racial lines. They were united in caloric excess, the Chicago way. It’s one of the few things that links a city otherwise balkanized by neighborhood, class, ethnic group, even baseball allegiance.
Another is its obsession with its own politics, particularly its mayors (pronounced locally as: Da Mare). Presidents and senators are fine — and one of their own will open his presidential library next month in Hyde Park — but the adage that all politics is local really could have been coined for Chicago.
This clubhouse culture is why ward committeemen and aldermen — and the favors they distribute or retribution they exact — endure in Chicago’s municipal-centric ecosystem.
But just as Manny’s feeds all, the historically closed system that was Chicago’s Democratic political machine is close to a relic, on its way to being as dated as the famous footage of 1968 in Grant Park.
Nobody today is posing the locally famous question a young Abner Mikva faced when he showed up at a local Democratic office to volunteer and was told: “We don’t want nobody nobody sent.”
That’s in part because there’s not a Richard Daley on the fourth floor of City Hall. And because the other enduring Illinois Democratic boss, Mike Madigan, was finally felled by the feds, meeting the same fate as so many others in both parties here.
But someone has stepped up to fill the vacuum: Gov. JB Pritzker.
Pritzker is hardly a political outsider — his family name can be found on buildings and philanthropic endeavors across Chicagoland. But the billionaire Hyatt hotel heir was always a donor and, he’s quick to note, an activist. He was no machine regular.
Pritzker’s only run before his winning 2018 gubernatorial bid was in a 1998 House Democratic primary (he came in third).
He may hate the term, but by virtue of his office and the personal money he’s steered toward consolidating political power, he’s effectively become Chicago’s new boss. That was apparent enough when, in March, he helped engineer a Senate nomination for his lieutenant governor, Juliana Stratton.
Now the question is, can Pritzker take his story — and perhaps more importantly, the Illinois Story — and sell it to a national Democratic audience in 2028?
As the governor sipped (lightly) on matzo ball soup and I ate (less lightly) from a plate heaped with pastrami and latkes, we discussed that and whether he’s a potential Goldilocks candidate for Democrats: not too moderate for the left but not too left for the center.
Also on the table: the alarming rise in threats he’s receiving because of his Judaism, why he thinks Democrats want to move past the 2024 debacle and, speaking of mayors, the prospect of a Rahm vs. J.B. Chicago primary within the primary in 2028.
But this is Manny’s — and in addition to being a popular election day gathering spot in Chicago, it has also long been the second home of David Axelrod, the Chicago Tribune political writer turned legendary Democratic strategist.
So we also had him, too, pull up a chair. Which is easy for him here: He has his own designated table, plaque and all, at Manny’s.
Partial excerpts of my discussion with Pritzker are below. You can watch the entire conversation — including my chat with Axelrod — on YouTube or listen to it as a podcasthere.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
It’s midday, it’s lunchtime, and I figured, why not Manny’s, right?
You bet. You have to go for the pastrami. I want matzo ball. You know I do. I’m not saying they know me here but-
He saw you come out of the car, and he was like, "Get the matzo ball ready for Pritzker!"
I want to ask you about where we are because Manny’s in the South Loop of Chicago is synonymous with politics in Chicago. You can feel the ghost of campaigns past. But it’s also very much part of present-day campaigns.
You mentioned in line over there, your sort of election day, election night stuff here. You’ve got some fond memories of being here at Manny’s, right?
Oh, yeah. Every election that I’ve won, I’ve been here at Manny’s during the day. If you don’t show up at basically noontime at Manny’s, you’re not gonna win. I’m convinced. I know you think that that’s some kind of black magic, I’m just telling you, it’s true. I feel like Manny’s is the place; you gotta touch home base here in order to win.
And you did run once before when you were younger, and you lost your first campaign. I think it was for the House.
By the way — didn’t come here at noon that day.
Yeah, and so Jan Schakowsky was in the House for like 30 years because she won that primary and won the general election. Is that ’98, by the way?
It was ’98. Exactly right, yeah.
So you should’ve come to Manny’s to start with.
Yes.
So, we’re gonna be here at Manny’s when you launch your campaign for president in 2028. At least on primary day, you’ll be here, right, governor?
Are you endorsing me? What is that? I don’t understand what you’re saying.
I thought you’d go for that bait right off the bat.
I see. Ba-boom! Here’s the thing. I literally come here, even when I’m not on the ballot. I’m here on election day because I’m usually supporting somebody.
So, talk to people about the possibility of a Pritzker for President campaign.
It sounds like you’re encouraging something that I’m not even talking about.
Well, other folks are talking about it, though. And actually, you’ve gotten some very positive chatter out there.
What I pick up is this — two things. Number one is: The people who are bullish say he’s kind of the Goldilocks candidate. He’s not too progressive in a way that’s gonna alienate the center of our party, but he’s not too much of a moderate that’s gonna piss off the left. He’s kinda in that sweet spot where he can live between both wings of the party. Is that fair, do you think?
I don’t know. Where you fit on the ideological spectrum is less important to me than, ‘What have you actually done?’
Are you a progressive?
I would argue that there are things that I have done that are hugely, importantly progressive, like raising the minimum wage. Our minimum wage had been $8.25. I ran on raising it to $15, and guess what? We did that in my first year in office.
But you don’t label yourself a progressive, though. You don’t say, "I’m a progressive."
Because I don’t like labels like that. But there’s no question about it. Look, I legalized cannabis in our state because people were getting arrested, and we had this incredibly discriminatory system where too many people of color were getting arrested for having cannabis on them, low-level cannabis convictions. And then a lot of white people weren’t getting convicted or arrested for it at all. And so, that’s not fair. Plus, we know that the effects of it are less harmful than alcohol, and yet alcohol is legal.
Have you recently partaken in this now legal product here in Illinois?
No, but I encourage people who want to go into business in our state, and in particular, we have social equity licenses so that people who come from disadvantaged communities can be in that business. It’s one of the big reasons that we legalized, to be frank with you — to make sure that we could put people in business who had been ill affected by the failed war on drugs.
Take it off the street and actually get some tax revenue behind it, too, right?
That’s true. Actually, it’s been very successful. But again, when I think about the things that I’ve done, remember, I’ve also been somebody who understands that you gotta build the economy. You gotta build jobs. That’s hugely important.
There’s a lot of people who say, "Pritzker is comfortable…” As I pointed out earlier, "He can go to the funeral for Jesse Jackson on the South Side. He’s just as comfortable going up to the United Airlines corporate office here, and traveling across the country." You can play in a lot of rooms, I guess, is the saying.
Look, I think I win votes from virtually every community across the state. There are a whole lot of people from lots of different places that come to Manny’s. I think there are a lot of people here who support me, as you saw when I walked in.
But the truth is that, for me anyway, it is about people’s humanity, right? Whether you’re a working-class person or you’re somebody who is truly disadvantaged or you’re middle class, I think people deserve to be treated with dignity. I think this administration in Washington does not believe that, and they’re providing advantages for the wealthiest people in this country, and they’re doing virtually nothing for people who are most vulnerable, or working families.
President Trump, in his first term, had this almost fixation with you. I remember talking to you back then. I think it was a state dinner for all the governors, because the governors, every winter, go to Washington for the NGA. There’s usually a big black tie dinner for all the governors, and he had wanted you at his table, or signaled you out, right?
It wasn’t at that event because I haven’t gone to any of his black-tie events at the White House, even in the first term. But yeah, he seems to think a lot about me.
Why do you think that is? Is it the hotel thing? Is it the money thing? Is it your good looks?
It’s clearly my good looks and charm. I’ll be honest with you, I think he doesn’t like that I’ve been so successful at pushing back on him. I’ve been loud and proud about standing up for the people of Illinois, and I think it bothers the heck out of him, right? He, on the one hand, hates that. On the other hand, I think he, like a lot of bullies, if you push back on a bully, oftentimes they actually do take a step back.
I can’t explain because I don’t understand. I think the man has dementia, I don’t really understand how it works up there for him, but I can tell you that he doesn’t seem to like me. He mentions me very often and sometimes, completely out of the blue. He’s not talking about Illinois, he’s not talking about Chicago. Somehow, I pop up in his head, and he wants to take after me.
Do you think he had dementia in the first term, or is that recent to this term?
I don’t know. It’s a good question.
Do you notice it more pronounced now?
Oh my goodness, this time it’s much more pronounced. And, from day one, during the campaign, I think I felt that. I think it’s kind of a sad state of affairs because someone who’s suffering from dementia — they genuinely need help, and there’s no one around him who wants to help him. All those people are just sycophants. They just love their jobs. They don’t want to get fired from their jobs. They know that at any moment, he could just flick them away.
He wanted to win you over in the first term. He’s not even really trying this time.
Oh, no.
Have you talked to him all this term?
I haven’t talked to him directly, not in this term. In the last term, I did. And I think you know-
Covid, yeah.
Yep, maybe famously, right? I called him at the beginning of Covid, the very beginning, in fact, before-
There was a book written about this period in American history. It was called “This Will Not Pass,” written by Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns, available on Amazon.com for a very modest price for paperback. Anyways, but during that period, governor, you had this conversation on the phone with him during Covid, and you were trying to get more supplies for Illinois, right?
I was, and this is the very beginning. As you know, it hit here harder than it did in most other places to start with. And, as a result, I needed supplies, I needed N95 masks. You couldn’t get them. You had to pay seven bucks if you could find one. They went for 75 cents, at least at the time, and you couldn’t get one for seven bucks at the time. I needed ventilators. I had people going in the hospital and dying, and we didn’t have enough ventilators here. He wouldn’t deliver those things to me. He promised, and then he didn’t deliver on them. And I think that says everything you need to know. In a national emergency, he promised and didn’t deliver what would’ve saved people’s lives.
And then when he ultimately did, his staff wanted to make sure that you gave him credit for it or something like that?
Exactly. This is before they didn’t deliver, and they said they would. They said, "If we do deliver, you’ll go on the Sunday shows and say nice things about the president?" And I said, “Yeah, of course.”
It’s Chicago, man, “I can do him a solid, you know?” That’s how it works here.
Yeah, I may not think much of him. But this is literally about saving lives.
Do what you got to do, yeah.
He should’ve been all about that, too. But wasn’t.
So, I think part of his confusion, too, by the way, is that you are successful— you worked in private equity and startups, and obviously your family was involved in hotels. He’s confused, like, “This guy’s obviously a capitalist. Why is he a Democrat?” I think part of it’s just his confusion about your profile, too, right?
I don’t know what to say about that. All I can say is that I’m somebody who believes in creating jobs and growing the economy. I’m somebody who thinks that our job in public life is to stand up for the people who need it most, who need government to work for them, like the middle class and working class. I don’t think he understands any of that.
He doesn’t look at government that way. It’s a way to get enriched, that’s what he thinks. He thinks this is how you get rich, and by the way, he’s getting rich doing it right now. It’s corrupt, but he’s making billions of dollars, and I don’t think people are paying enough attention to that.
This is a state that elected Barack Obama to the Senate, and obviously, he became a two-term president.
I recall a lot of the chatter in 2008: "Well, come on, he’s a Black guy with a Muslim name, Barack Hussein Obama. The country’s never gonna elect somebody like that." And he obviously won, convincingly, twice. Now, he obviously had enormous talents as a candidate. He also had the good luck of timing to run in 2008.
Does your religious faith help you, hurt you, or just not matter that much in the same way that Obama was kind of was hurt by it and helped by it at the same time and it was a wash?
You’re asking about it in a different context than I would respond to it, which is, when I was thinking about running for governor, I went to talk to a lot of people to say, "Is this something I should consider doing?"
And a couple of people said to me, "It might be a problem that you’re Jewish." And that was surprising to me, but something I considered back then. It didn’t have any impact. It hasn’t affected my ability to get elected. I got elected by 16 points the first time I ran. I got elected by 13 points the second time I ran. I think the people of Illinois are past that. And that’s what matters to me. It really has not been an issue to me.
I will say that one of the results of the current environment is that there are — because of all the political violence that’s occurred, and we can talk about the causes of that — but because of the political violence, I think that the antisemites out there and the people who are racist, because they know that I stand up for communities of color, have come out of the woodwork. And I receive threats. I’m sure that politicians across the country are receiving more threats than they have before.
But I hear about it. And in particular, sometimes I hear the mention of my Judaism, right, of my religion.
That has spiked in the last couple of years?
Yeah.
Like, threats against you and your family?
Yeah. I don’t want to overstate it, but it’s true. And it’s more than it was in years before.
What’s the driver of that, do you think?
Look, our leaders set the tone in this country. And I think that the president of the United States has set a tone where political violence is okay. He’s advocated it himself before. It’s a terrible thing. He’s experienced the other side of that. We’ve got to stand up against this. We need to be speaking out against political violence. I’m a big believer in it’s okay to disagree, but not be disagreeable.
But in your own party, though, obviously, the views toward Israel have changed dramatically. And that’s different entirely than just the question of antisemitism. I recognize that. But do you worry that just being a Zionist, for example — that itself is slowly becoming controversial somehow too?
Here’s what I think. I think that we need to solve the problem of how are we going to get to peace in the Middle East. That’s a problem that’s been around for a long time, but it’s now much, much harder because of what Donald Trump has done.
Do you worry that Zionism is becoming a slur, almost, on the left side of the spectrum?
Here’s what I know. Antisemitism has often been connected to people’s views about Israel. That is: If you don’t like what Israel and, in particular, Netanyahu are doing, now it’s okay to have slurs that you’re spewing about Jews. It’s not. It’s never okay.
It’s okay, however, to disagree with the leader of another country or even the leader of our country. But it’s not okay to issue slurs about somebody’s religion in particular.
But there’s a slippery slope, as you know, between-
Oh, I think there are a lot of people that don’t understand the difference. I’m just explaining to you, I do think that that’s a minority of folks. And I think very importantly, I’m not going to change because there are some people out there that will equate those two things. I’m very forthright about my views. And if people don’t like it, they’re not voting for me.
And the summation of your views is you’re an unapologetic Zionist who is deeply, deeply uneasy about the current government in Israel. Is that fair?
I’m unapologetically in favor of having a peaceful sanctuary that Jews can live in, in Israel. I’m also unapologetically in favor of a Palestinian State where Palestinians can live peacefully in the Middle East.
And by the way, we’re never, ever gonna get to peace until we have that.
But right now, I want to be clear, Netanyahu has made that near-impossible at the moment with his leadership. So we’ve gotta make sure that moving past Netanyahu… And FYI, let me just point out, there are a lot of people who don’t like Netanyahu, but you shouldn’t take it out on Israel. It’s a democracy that elected him. There are a lot of people who don’t like Trump. I mean, should we be tossed into the Hague as a country because of Trump? I’m just saying that we have to be careful about how we’re treating other countries when they elect somebody that we don’t like.
You said Israel should be a safe haven for Jews.
Yes.
Do you think America is still a safe haven for Jews?
It is. It’s just that, unfortunately, you’ve seen a rise of antisemitism, and that’s something terrible, and we’ve got to, again, push back. We’ve gotta speak out about it and do everything we can.
It’s not just about antisemitism, it’s about racism. There’s a rise in all of these hate groups that are out there. And who is it that said about the Proud Boys, "Stand back and stand by"?
We don’t know where your future goes, but it sounds like you’re pretty darn confident that your faith is not gonna be an impediment to any future political prospects you would have in this country.
I’m running for re-election. I don’t think it’s going to affect whether I win or lose.
Beyond that, though. Is the country ready for it?
Oh, I think the country is ready to have a Jewish president. I just think that’s not necessarily gonna happen.
Listen, I think this is what should give people hope: First of all, there was a time when people said a Catholic shouldn’t be president of the United States. There was a time when people said that a Black man shouldn’t be president of the United States. The truth of the matter is that we’ve overcome these things in the past. We can do so much better.
Speaking of, is the country ready for two Chicagoans to run for president? That could be a spicy meatball. If you and Rahm Emanuel both run for president, Democrats from Chicago, is this city big enough to contain two Democrats — the former mayor, Rahm Emanuel, and the current governor — both running potentially in the Democratic primary?
Is Rahm a friend of yours, number one? And number two, do you think he’d be a formidable opponent in the primary?
Rahm is a friend. He’s somebody I’ve known for a long time.
But is he a friend, though?
He is. It’s not to say that I don’t disagree with him on some things, but I will say, I-
Hold on a second. Where do y’all disagree?
All right. Let me just answer your first question, please, if I may. He’s done a whole lot of positive things. He’s a public servant. He believes himself to be a public servant, he’s been doing it most of his life. And so I understand why he wants to run for president. So I applaud that.
I’m not sure… I know that he’s trying to pick a lane and decide whether he’s gonna run. I think that we have had great people come out of Illinois to lead this nation. And I would hope that he, if he actually did get elected, that he would be one of those great people.
Well, you mentioned pick a lane. He clearly is trying to position himself more toward the center of the party. Is that, for example, one of the areas where you guys disagree? He’s taken some stances that are pretty combative toward the left. Is that what you have in mind?
Yeah, I’m not a big believer in going after one piece of the party or another piece of the party. I think Democrats have made mistakes. There’s no doubt about it, and I think it’s okay to call out mistakes.
Like what?
I’ll give you the example that I think about the most, which is in 2024 — and let’s recognize that that was a crazy year, right? I’ve never in my lifetime seen an incumbent president running for re-election drop out; his vice president, who’s not that well known, to be frank, at the beginning of it, have 107 days to run a campaign. It’s never happened before.
But one thing that was disappointing about the campaign, and I’m not putting this on the candidate, I think it’s on Democrats writ large: Where have we been on the minimum wage? $7.25. Do you think anybody thinks that’s reasonable? I can tell you, no. Even Republicans think $7.25 an hour, $14,000 a year, is not enough to live on. So we should have been out there. That’s just one, but it’s hugely important to go out there and advocate for something that’s really going to lift up working families and make it easier for them.
Because this is now for the history books, how close were you to jumping in that summer of 2024 that day that Biden dropped out? You were tempted, right? You looked at it, fair?
No. Here’s what I can tell you. First of all, were you surprised? I was surprised.
What I can tell you is that Joe Biden has wanted to be president his whole life. I think I never anticipated that once he became president, he would choose not to run for reelection. That’s something that I’ve always thought. And I have great respect for Joe Biden. I mean he’s a great public servant and somebody who cares deeply about the institutions of our democracy. So, when all of a sudden he dropped out, and there was like, "Oh my God, what is happening here?"
But as you know, a number of us actually announced our support for Kamala Harris very quickly. And Gretchen Whitmer and I talked about when we’re gonna go. We actually timed it at the same time. We made an announcement 10:00 a.m., I think, that following morning.
But wasn’t there a period that Sunday where for a few minutes you thought about, "Is there an opening here?"
Now, there were people who had talked about, "Well, you know, what would a process look like?"
Who came to you wondering about that?
No, no. I’m saying I heard people talking about this, right? Listen, I’m politically interested. I know there are people who want to be president, right? And so there was a lot of discussion about, ‘Should there be some sort of process?’ but we know that that wouldn’t have worked.
That was a mistake in hindsight. The whole thing was a debacle, right?
You couldn’t have a process, though, like people were talking about. Some kind of mini primary. What were you gonna do? No official votes, but you’re gonna have some kind of mini primary or what? It’s basically a beauty pageant of some sort. Which, of course, if it’s a beauty pageant, I’m not gonna win that. My beauty is not great enough.
I will tell you that it was so obvious that if we have to move quickly, if we have to have a nominee quickly, that the right person is the number two person in the country.
But the party wants to move on from the debacle that was 2024, right?
Well, yeah. We lost. I don’t know if you remember. We want to move on from losing, especially because look at the damage that’s been done to the country as a result of Donald Trump taking office.
Do you think ultimately that Kamala Harris does not run in ’28?
I don’t know. It sounded like she’s seriously thinking about. You don’t think she will?
No, I think she’s looking at it now. I just think the challenge is what you just said, which is, most of the party wants to move on from what happened in the past.
She’s very popular with a number of people out there. I’m sure it’s hard for somebody to look at polls and see that you’re doing well and then not run, so I would be surprised if she didn’t run.
Do you see an opportunity to do what would have been unthinkable last year, which is: Democrats win the Senate? Could you play a role at making sure that happens?
Oh, I’m gonna do my best. In fact, as I told you before, when I used to knock on doors, and I also gave a contribution, guess what I’m doing now? Yeah, I’m giving a contribution, but I’m also traveling to states and to districts where I think I can help Democrats win. So that’s a tool in the toolbox to help Democrats win.
Look, we have to take the House of Representatives. We have to take the Senate. And I think if people want to change this country from what Donald Trump is doing to it, then they got to show up and vote, and I’m gonna do everything I can to get them to the polls.
And when will you decide what’s next for you? If you do take the next step for a run for president, when do you make that choice? Is it next year at some point?
It’s not something that I have scheduled, I can tell you. Here’s what I can say: I really have been flattered that people talk about this.
I’m focused on running for reelection, and it is true that everything that I do has the people of Illinois in mind. So if I make some decision about something else, it’s going to be the question of, how is this good for the people of Illinois? But I will tell you that continuing on the path that we’re on, fixing the challenges, turning this state around, that’s my number one priority.
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May 5, 2026 at 05:03AM
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